Yes, I know looking at Chuck Norris as an intellectual leader of the GOP is like looking at Jean Claude Van Damme as the intellectual leader of Europe. But talk like this of secession over the economy and the policies of Barack Obama needs to be called what it is - stupid, inflammatory rhetoric. And by EVERYONE who is a Republican needs to condemn it as unworthy of the party of Lincoln.
The Union survived John Adams's alien and sedition acts, we survived a Civil War, we survived FDR's alphabet soup programs, we survived LBJ's Great Society, and we survived George W. Bush's War-On-Terror-To-The-Exclusion-Of-Everything-Else. We will survive Barack Obama's policies. We may even thrive under some of them.
Stop talking secession - even in jest - and start talking about how to rebuild a party that represents YOUR ideas. Or else stop talking entirely.
While I agree that seceding over Obama's taxing and spending is stupid, I don't know that just because Republicans are "the party of Lincoln" that it automatically means they can't support secession. Secession is similar to a partial overthrow of the government... a rebellion... which is how our country was formed. I'm not looking to secede, I just don't see why it's not an option just because a past president for the party was opposed to succession.
YanıtlaSilWedge,
YanıtlaSilThe Republican Party was FOUNDED based on the idea of the Union. Of a federation of sovereign states that would never be sundered. We found a WAR over this. And won. If you want to break up the nation now, at LEAST have the courage to realize you are opposing a BASIC tenet of the Republican Party. This is not a point like gay rights where we can agree to disagree. This is a bedrock belief.
My point: If a group is DEFINED as X, you can not define yourself as both Anti-X and part of that group. If you want to be Anti-X, get out of the group and start your own.
Sigh. No offense, but I CAN'T believe I have to defend this point.
No offense taken. I see your point. I guess the only counter I might have is that since we basically have a two party system, there are lots of "types" of Republicans. Some are for the idea of never breaking up the union; some are against the idea of never breaking up the union; some could care less / don't know. They're "Republicans" though because they're not Democrats. I guess you get into the debate of if you have a ship and replace every board, is it still the same ship? That being said, I do see your point where the Republican party would have to either close up shop and start over or state, "we're no longer the party of Lincoln".
YanıtlaSilMy argument is that secession is OK to contemplate as long as you are willing to fight and shed blood to attain it. It would cause another civil war and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. I wouldn't want that kind of blood on my hands, but there are circumstances where it would be OK to consider doing so.
YanıtlaSilI think state secession is only allowed if, as Lincoln suggested, the majority allows it (i.e. a large number of people and states said it was okay for the secession of 1 state).
YanıtlaSilA democracy is founded on the idea that the majority rules, and you can't just take your toys and go home when you don't like it.
As CRCHAIR said, if you do want to secede and feel there is a strong enough reason to buck the majority, you are on very shaky ground, and you better be very willing to fight a very bloody war.
I think all of this talk is silly. We have a system, unlike truly what they had in 1776, that allows for constant change, every few years. Work to change through the system, don't just decide you are going to secede because you don't like the majority rule.
I think you summarized it well, Nick.
YanıtlaSil(1) Don't talk secession because of a single budget bill. Work to change the system.
(2) Secession is not realistic or useful to talk about.
(3) If you DO want to talk secession, do it outside of the Republican tent.
Again, I realize Chuck Norris is an entertainer and not a spokesman. But his comments here are simply irresponsible and counterproductive.
Yes, I see secession as basically the same thing as rebellion / overthrowing the government. The only difference being whether all of the states join in or not.
YanıtlaSilOn a side note, there is apparently a resurgence in the idea of splitting California. Doubt it'll happen as it has to be approved by the people of California, California government and federal government, but with the state being so big and leaning liberal, this isn't the first time.